Bernard Ntahondi

Bernard Ntahondi is a Tanzanian professional specializing in film curation and heritage management. He is currently a curator at the Dar es Salaam Center for Architectural Heritage, where he integrates his knowledge of architecture and history into his film-related endeavors. Bernard's passion for film is evident in his role as the administrator of Short Century African Films, focusing on films from 1945 to 1994 that depict the struggles for independence and socio-economic challenges in post-colonial Africa. Additionally, Bernard works as a historian and curator at Ajabu Ajabu Audio Visual House, which emphasizes preserving stories and storytelling practices through films.

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What comes to your mind when you think about colonial history and decolonial, post-colonial present in Hamburg?

Especially Hamburg is one of the cities that have kept the history of colonialism alive in different forms. Every time I come to Hamburg I try to visit several places that relate to the colonial history. And I remember when I visited Hamburg for the first time, I had a chance to walk around in the evening, and the first thing that captured my attention, was the big monument of Bismarck. And I was really curious, because you can see it from different angles of the city, and I was so curious to just go there.
I went there on the first day that I arrived in Hamburg, and slowly I started reading a little bit about the monument, and just to find out that the monument has been there since 1906. 
But that’s when I had an idea of trying to explore a little bit around the city and see different places that have a similar history. I visited the main university building, the former Kolonialinstitut, and I also visited the Ethnographic Museum, which is now the MARKK, that had an exhibition about Rudolf Duala Manga Bell and also the HafenCity and the Elbphilharmonie, where the former cacao warehouse used to be.
In the St. Michaelis Church they have a commemoration plaque for the colonial soldiers from Hamburg, especially the one who fought against the Nama and OvaHerero in today´s Namibia. I was so surprised not to find or see anything about the victims and soldiers in Africa who fought against the Germans or in China during the Boxer War. 
I visited so many places, including the Afrika-Haus, the Town Hall and the Chamber of Commerce. I also have visited a few places that don’t have a specific connection to Africa, for example the Chile-Haus, the Asia-Haus and many other places. I think Hamburg has so much when it comes to the history of colonialism.

How did you identify these places and buildings and institutions? Did you have some apps, maps or a network of people who informed you about this? Or how did you know where to go and which places to visit?

I can tell you the secret, it is the map Hamburg postcolonial: Colonialism, Migration, Globalization. It is in English and German and on the cover you can see George Padmore, a Panafricanist from Trinidad. I visted the former headquarters of the International Trade Union Committee of Negro Workers in Hamburg, where Padmore used to work for a few years.
The map was a gift for me. And to me, that was the best gift ever. So, all I needed was internet and the map I had. That way I could go to so many places without even asking somebody to take me to some places. So, this map really helped me so much.

Wow, I find it very interesting to see that that the card still has such value today, because it is from 2010 and about 15 years old. And at that time we did have internet of course but it was not that common to have digital mapping projects…

Sure. I mean, this map really helped me so much. At first, I didn’t understand it. So, I was like, okay, maybe I don’t need it. Maybe Google Maps and grid map can help. But then, they could all not provide specific information when it comes to post-colonial and colonial period. Then, it was much easier to move around and identify the places. And I visited several places. Something that caught my attention was the Bernhard-Nocht-Institute of Tropical Medicine, because of Bernhard Nocht´s contribution towards the formation of the racist segregation of cities, both in Doula in Cameroon, but also in Dar es Salaam and many other places where the former German colonial government existed. So I was very curious to visit that place.

You mentioned quite a lot of places and buildings that you visited. How is you impression about these buildings and visible traces of colonialism in the public space?

It’s not easy to identify or to know those places, basically. And also to know the contribution of those places or monuments into the history of colonialism. I remember the first time I visited the Afrika Haus. I expected a little bit more information. There is a small plague where you can learn a little bit about the building, but I was expecting more information, because the Woermann Company was the centre of the trade with Africa. 
I think that most of the places lack detailed information. Maybe they have information inside that you have to request. But for somebody who is just passing by or who wants to have a quick look, I think that would be very interesting to have something outside of these places.
Not many of the buildings have even those plagues. I remember visiting the Bismarck Monument. I expected to have, of course, a big place where you can find details of the contribution of Bismarck in different angles. So, that’s not there!

Would you say that it is only necessary to have more critical information, or would you also say that here and there some facades or monuments in public spaces need to be changed?

I think that’s very interesting that you mentioned that. Well, to most of the people who know a little bit of the history of the colonial period, the impression that we have with people like Bismarck, for example, and coming to Germany for the first time, I remember seeing that monument, like a very, very big monument standing in the city centre, even without enough information, it is very irritating. I remember also, for example, seeing Bismarck table water and I thought, I’m not going to drink this water.
It gave me a lot of unanswered questions because there are people whom we think their monument doesn’t deserve to be somewhere. But some people see persons like Bismarck as heroes, so that’s when I knew that the past is not behind us. I think the past is all around us and it changed only the form. It is disgusting to see big monuments like that still standing to this day. But again, some people see him as a hero. So, that’s where I think the conflict arises.

And besides these old colonial monuments and buildings, do you see any possibilities to establish an anti-colonial or decolonial intervention or activity in public space that doesn’t care about these old monuments, that establishes something new? 

Well, I think something that we also have to understand is that colonialism was a system and every system should be judged according to its principles. You don’t judge a system because of the people or because of people who practise the system. For example, we don’t judge Christianity because of what the Christians are doing here and there. We judge Christianity based on its principles. It’s the same thing. So, every system has principles and to my own opinion, I think before even thinking of what we can establish or doing, it’s essential to know the principles of colonialism and judging those principles of colonialism.
That would probably give a big sense and easy way to think of the problem because that will analyse the whole context. Why do we have this monument? Why did they put those monuments into the system?
What kind of solutions are we taking against the former principles of colonialism? I think that’s something that we can talk about. There are many possibilities of what we can do now but I think it would not solve the problem if we don’t tackle the principles of colonialism.

And where should they be tackled? In what fields? Like in politics or in education?

Well, I think politics could not be my number one choice. I somehow understand how the game of politics works. My number one option would be education. Why? Because we have seen most of the big revolutions or changes always start with radical students, who understand and who know the processes. So, I’m pretty much sure if these topics could be introduced in school curriculums, for example, people get to learn. You know, I work as a guide here in Dar es Salaam. I sometimes get a lot of exchange students who come from Hamburg because of the partnership between the cities. And sometimes you talk to them and explain some of the issues. You see them looking at you as if they know nothing. They literally know nothing about it. That tells us something and I think they would be better ambassadors if they knew something.

You mentioned the partnership between Dar es Salaam and Hamburg. What is your impression about this twin town relationship? How are the colonial past or the decolonial activities both in Dar es Salaam and in Hamburg discussed? Do you see any colonial continuities within this partnership?

Well, the city partnership will be 15 years. And it’s very surprising because it’s as if it started yesterday. There have been a lot of efforts that have been put in this context. To my own opinion, I think it is one of the best things: Trying to understand each other.
For a very long time, the topic of colonialism has not been addressed. But I’m happy that recently the topic has been also addressed in different ways. We have been able to screen a few critical films and bring around those dialogues.
I think as more time goes by, I’m pretty much sure that this topic will be addressed in different ways. And we’re probably going to have many people who will be able to address this topic during the partnership and exchanges. It also reminds me of the Spanish philosopher and poet George Satayana, who used to say that those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. I’m glad that you’re trying to bring all these topics. We talk about it and we hope the history cannot repeat itself. So, thank you so much for your work.